Dear Abby had a letter...
...about a mean and nasty step-father who asked to be addressed as Mr. Bob (or whatever his name was) and apparently Abby called him out on that saying that it was more control than respect. A bunch of readers called HER out on that answer, saying that here in the South, children don't call adults by their first names without Mr., Mrs. or Miss in front of their names. That is true, not only with children, but with anyone who is more than a few years younger than the adult. As a nurse working with the elderly, I called the residents Miss Sarah or Mr. Dave. In return, the staff that I supervised referred to me as Miss Meg. I've lived all over the country and I know that such manners are a dying art. But, here in the South, they're alive and well.
Even in the North, as a child, I could never refer to an adult by their first name without using Aunt or Uncle in front of it if they were friendly with my family or Mr. or Mrs. if they were not as close. When my kids began bringing home their friends, the friends would call me by my first name and it was a bit surprising to me. But, my kids assured me that I was "old" and didn't know about the way things were "now". Well, I was in my twenties when the kids brought little friends home so I couldn't have been THAT old. My kids also told me that they called their friend's parents by their first names and that the parents told them to. I'm curious, am I THAT out of date? Do kids still do that?
I had a friend come visit me from the North and when she heard me saying Yes Ma'am and Yes Sir to people we would come across, she laughed at me. To this day, I do that and no natives here in the South laugh at it...it's respectful and shows breeding. When I go up North for a visit, I rarely hear the Ma'am's and Sir's. So many niceties are falling by the wayside.
All of this change in one or two generations...I think it's kind of sad. Do any parents out of the South still teach their children to address their elders as such? I'd be interested to know. Recently a commenter asked me what I thought of the art of having a conversation face to face with all of the new means of communications and I told him that I did agree that it was a dying art. Along with the art of one on one conversations, some of the other niceties are falling along the wayside. I've even had one of my kids tell me that they had a teacher who asked them to call her by her first name. I guess it's all supposed to make everyone feel equal.
I think that's silly because showing respect is a two way street and it has nothing to do with equality, it has to do with treating people with the respect that they have earned. I couldn't have imagined calling a teacher by his or her first name. I wouldn't have even known if they HAD a first name. It would have been unthinkable to call them Sue or Joe.
What do you guys think? Do you think that it's progressive to call elders by their first names? Has the term, "Minding your P's and Q's" gone away with telephones that are attached to the wall by a cord?
It's amazing how many things have changed in my lifetime alone. I can't imagine what the world must look like to an 80 year old.
When I was a little girl, I had to go outside and play during the day, there was no sitting in the house watching TV for us. And then, when we wanted to come in our own house for whatever reason, we actually had to knock on the door. I had to ask for permission to use the telephone and I even had to ask my mother if I could get my hair wet in the bathtub. She was the one who had to brush it so she was the one who decided whether or not I could get it wet.
When I was about 15, I was doing the dishes in my grandmother's kitchen and I had turned on the radio that she kept on the fridge. I turned the station to one that didn't play bluegrass and I was listening to a station that I liked. Grandma walked into the kitchen just as the song "Sunshine" was playing. In case you've never heard that song, it had a line that went, "he can't even run his own life I'll be damned if he'll run mine". Well, Grandma FREAKED out! "DAMNED? Did they just sing DAMNED?!" I was no longer allowed to touch her radio. I didn't write the song, I just sang along with it. But, in doing so, I had "cussed" in Grandma's house and that was NOT allowed.
Can you imagine what she would think if she turned the TV on and heard even the commercials using foul language? I asked a poll question once about television and most of the respondents said that they believed that TV was going out of it's way to "define deviancy downward". Why do you suppose they would do that? In a 30 minute show, they have many lines to choose from when they pick the part that will be used in the commercial, why do they have to use the line with the foul language? I agree with the people who felt as though TV was doing it on purpose to lower the standards of our country.
If Grandma came back for a day, I wouldn't let her anywhere NEAR a television, it'd kill her again. When she died, they advertised bra's on a mannequin with Jane Russell standing next to it showing how the Cross Your Heart bra worked. Now, they have women running around in their underwear and even Janet Jackson bearing her right boob for all the world to see. I'm rather afraid to see what will come next.
Oh well. I fear I'll find out soon enough. What do you guys think of all of this change? Do you still use the Yes Ma'am's and Yes Sir's? What do your children call their elders? When these little niceties left, they lowered our standards a bit and now, I believe the disrespect for the marriage vows have followed it right into history. What a shame.
Meg
...about a mean and nasty step-father who asked to be addressed as Mr. Bob (or whatever his name was) and apparently Abby called him out on that saying that it was more control than respect. A bunch of readers called HER out on that answer, saying that here in the South, children don't call adults by their first names without Mr., Mrs. or Miss in front of their names. That is true, not only with children, but with anyone who is more than a few years younger than the adult. As a nurse working with the elderly, I called the residents Miss Sarah or Mr. Dave. In return, the staff that I supervised referred to me as Miss Meg. I've lived all over the country and I know that such manners are a dying art. But, here in the South, they're alive and well.
Even in the North, as a child, I could never refer to an adult by their first name without using Aunt or Uncle in front of it if they were friendly with my family or Mr. or Mrs. if they were not as close. When my kids began bringing home their friends, the friends would call me by my first name and it was a bit surprising to me. But, my kids assured me that I was "old" and didn't know about the way things were "now". Well, I was in my twenties when the kids brought little friends home so I couldn't have been THAT old. My kids also told me that they called their friend's parents by their first names and that the parents told them to. I'm curious, am I THAT out of date? Do kids still do that?
I had a friend come visit me from the North and when she heard me saying Yes Ma'am and Yes Sir to people we would come across, she laughed at me. To this day, I do that and no natives here in the South laugh at it...it's respectful and shows breeding. When I go up North for a visit, I rarely hear the Ma'am's and Sir's. So many niceties are falling by the wayside.
All of this change in one or two generations...I think it's kind of sad. Do any parents out of the South still teach their children to address their elders as such? I'd be interested to know. Recently a commenter asked me what I thought of the art of having a conversation face to face with all of the new means of communications and I told him that I did agree that it was a dying art. Along with the art of one on one conversations, some of the other niceties are falling along the wayside. I've even had one of my kids tell me that they had a teacher who asked them to call her by her first name. I guess it's all supposed to make everyone feel equal.
I think that's silly because showing respect is a two way street and it has nothing to do with equality, it has to do with treating people with the respect that they have earned. I couldn't have imagined calling a teacher by his or her first name. I wouldn't have even known if they HAD a first name. It would have been unthinkable to call them Sue or Joe.
What do you guys think? Do you think that it's progressive to call elders by their first names? Has the term, "Minding your P's and Q's" gone away with telephones that are attached to the wall by a cord?
It's amazing how many things have changed in my lifetime alone. I can't imagine what the world must look like to an 80 year old.
When I was a little girl, I had to go outside and play during the day, there was no sitting in the house watching TV for us. And then, when we wanted to come in our own house for whatever reason, we actually had to knock on the door. I had to ask for permission to use the telephone and I even had to ask my mother if I could get my hair wet in the bathtub. She was the one who had to brush it so she was the one who decided whether or not I could get it wet.
When I was about 15, I was doing the dishes in my grandmother's kitchen and I had turned on the radio that she kept on the fridge. I turned the station to one that didn't play bluegrass and I was listening to a station that I liked. Grandma walked into the kitchen just as the song "Sunshine" was playing. In case you've never heard that song, it had a line that went, "he can't even run his own life I'll be damned if he'll run mine". Well, Grandma FREAKED out! "DAMNED? Did they just sing DAMNED?!" I was no longer allowed to touch her radio. I didn't write the song, I just sang along with it. But, in doing so, I had "cussed" in Grandma's house and that was NOT allowed.
Can you imagine what she would think if she turned the TV on and heard even the commercials using foul language? I asked a poll question once about television and most of the respondents said that they believed that TV was going out of it's way to "define deviancy downward". Why do you suppose they would do that? In a 30 minute show, they have many lines to choose from when they pick the part that will be used in the commercial, why do they have to use the line with the foul language? I agree with the people who felt as though TV was doing it on purpose to lower the standards of our country.
If Grandma came back for a day, I wouldn't let her anywhere NEAR a television, it'd kill her again. When she died, they advertised bra's on a mannequin with Jane Russell standing next to it showing how the Cross Your Heart bra worked. Now, they have women running around in their underwear and even Janet Jackson bearing her right boob for all the world to see. I'm rather afraid to see what will come next.
Oh well. I fear I'll find out soon enough. What do you guys think of all of this change? Do you still use the Yes Ma'am's and Yes Sir's? What do your children call their elders? When these little niceties left, they lowered our standards a bit and now, I believe the disrespect for the marriage vows have followed it right into history. What a shame.
Meg
posted by Meg Kelso | 7:46 AM
11 Comments:
Alright, Meg, what should I call you from now on? :)
Regarding your second to last sentence, a social worker once told me that us divorcees are the product of a "social ill"
Speaking of manners there is a little know pamphlet on manners that exists that should be compulsory for every human being on the face of the planet; it is called "To Manners Born To Manners Bread", it is difficult to find, but a must read for anyone who has common sense.
I wasa educated in the South at an all male college (yes, they still exists, in fact there are two left), and that brings me to my next pont: those studens who came from the North at first bawked at the thought of yes ma'am or no sir or sure Miss Anita, but in the end they came to see the light.
I never understood why people allowed their children to address adults in the familiar. I still dont get it. As we get on in years it is a sign of respect. Respect is something that we all earn, true, but respect also comes with age. What more can I say, the lack of manners infuriates me!
Absolutely, age earns respect from youngsers, you are correct.
And what to call me? LOL, how old are you?
I think that most of us are contemporaries and Meg is just fine. Unless of course, you're from the South, then Miss Meg will do.
:):):)
Hey Mr. Radio,
I am so glad to hear that there are still all-male schools left in this country. I find it despicable that anyone would begrudge a young man the opportunity to attend such an institution. If women want to go to some special school, let them do what the men did, build it themselves. How else would they ever learn to appreciate what they have? I am so annoyed to see people benefitting from the labors of others while doing their best to take away the rights of those who built the schools.
When you give a woman the right to go to school with men, you take away the right of the men to go to school with men. How in the heck is that fair? And I don't want to hear about tax dollars. I would love to see my tax dollars go to all-male schools. Men like you are the result and that's a benefit to the entire country.
Meg
Meg:
I was born and raised Southern and even at my age I always say Yes Mam and No Mam to any lady no matter what age. That comes from being raised by a Steel magnolia and I'm in my 60s. Its just breeding.
Buddy
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hello. I'm Elizabeth and I'm fourteen, just to clarify.
I live in the south and I was raised here, and I was raised saying Yes sir or Ma'am. If I don't know the last name of my friend's parent, I'd call them Mr./Ms. [friend's name]'s father/mother before I call them by their first name.
In my house, if my friends don't use sir or ma'am, my parents either correct them, or gape at them jokingly until I tell them about their mistake. During my life before I was in middle school I continued to ask every time I wanted to leave my backyard or watch television.
I don't think everyone has given up on being polite, it's just most people aren't raised that way. (I personally think they should be. Although I might be slightly biased.) I too get smirked at every time I call someone sir or ma'am around one of my friends from up north.
I have NEVER had a teacher allow me to call them by their first name even less ask me to and I've gone to two of the highest ranking magnet schools in the USA. It wouldn't be right, they earned the formalities by being my elder.
Oh, and I also have friends that still go out of their way to open the door for anyone, and their parents insist upon their being polite.
Thank you for that post, it was nice to know that other people still care about formalities. :)
Meg,
I am 22, and born and raised in upstate NY (as you know). Growing up, and to this day, if I were to refer to a person of 35 or older as anything other than Miss/Mr./Mrs./Ms. whatever there last name (or first name if they insisted) was, my mother or grandmother would slap the taste out of my mouth.
I think it's a complete lack of respect otherwise. Even my siblings 4-5 years younger than me have no respect for adults of any age. They'll be right in front of a little old lady and it's "fuck this fuck that" etc. I would never! I have a bunch of visible tattoos and facial piercings, and I sometimes amaze people with how polite and respectful I am. I don't know any other way to be. I wish that could be said for my peers.
Honestly though, I put the blame on the parents. I was brought up to be kind and respectful to all people, even moreso when it's an adult. Parents now don't behave properly themselves, let alone teach their children to. Just my opinion..
Elizabeth,
People absolutely DO still care about manners. And seeing a young lady like you feel that manners are important gives us hope for the future...it's up to you to keep it going! I'm sure you will, you sound like a winner, those magnet school can be great opportunities!
Meg
Manid,
I'm with you. I knewthat all young ladies couldn't possibly find those men attractive but they needn't worry, some nut will date them. And then they'll be on Jerry Springer.
I'm really pleased at how many people care about manners!!!
Meg
I am a HUGE proponent of single sex education at the univesrity level (granted I'm a little biased, but let me tell you a story), for where I went to school there was not only an all male college, but three all female ones within an hours driving distance. I saw first hand what a necessity it is in this world. Instead of worrying what you were going to wear to class to impress memebers of the opposite sex, we concentrated on learning. If you wanted to you could literally roll out of bed and stumble to class no matter what you were wearing, so long as you were covered in the appropriate areas (granted I went to school at the college that was once rated #3 in a book titled the "Preppy Handbook", so rolling out of bed usually meant putting on the kakhi pants and the polo shirt that you had worn the day before, so I still looked better than 95% of america's youth tday). We thought nothing of going to class in kakhi pants, button down shirt and a tie (in fact more often than not thats how we went to class, and to top that off, most of us went in foreign hand bow ties, tied by us for us).
The women at the various women's colleges did this too. The weekends were reserved for fun. Football Saturdays were the best though. We used to dress in shirts and ties (sometines in shorts and sometimes in slacks depending on the weater) and the girls dressed in summer dresses it was the hight of college fashion. People still do it, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, it shows a little self respect in my mind.
I grew up in an age and place where elders were adressed using one or other formal form of address (whether aunty this or uncle that or mrs or mr). The only exceptions were grandparents who had their own special appellation.
This came home to me only yesterday when my B year old referred to the senior librarian at our local library as 'Liz'. I would never have done that and hearing B refering to someone she stood in such a relationship to in that way got me thinking very hard about how she'd come to see herself quite comfortably able to interact with adults with such ease and familiarity.
To be honest it really jarred. But I had to set that against an awareness I've had for some time that my instinct to attach formal labels to everyone older than me is rather crippling. Notwithstanding the fact that my B is only 8 surely there must come a time when the relative significance of differences in age and wealth and seniority and other arbitrary delineators of status must diminish to such a point where they are no longer relevant or at least significant and two people can interact as broadly equal individuals.
B was scrupulously polite and there was nothing in the way she spoke with Liz to suggest she held her in anything but the utmost respect.
After pondering this little cameo of my all-too-rapidly maturing B I decided I was actually hugely proud of her and also just a little proud of me that despite my handicap I've actually raised someone who looks the world in the face and sees all people at least until proved otherwise as worthy of her respect (and civility) but no servility.
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